Posted on March 16 2021 by
In our SECOND EPISODE of Talk Commerce, Brent Peterson chats with New Zealand-based Magento Master Kristof Ringleff about ExtDN, Magento Marketplace, and extensions! If you are interested in being a guest on our show, visit https://www.wagento.com/talk-commerce to fill out a short form letting us know!
Brent: [00:00:00] How are things in N Z
[00:00:04] Kristof: [00:00:04] N Z, N Zed as we used to call it
[00:00:07] Brent: [00:00:07] N-Zed sorry.
[00:00:11] Kristof: [00:00:11] Vacation got all the family here Oh, cool.
[00:00:16]. Why not?
[00:00:17] You just, if you work things during the vacation,
[00:00:21] Brent: [00:00:21] I told the new owner that I would continue to work while I’m here
[00:00:25] Kristof: [00:00:25] congrats on that. And that would have been a huge, change.
[00:00:30] Brent: [00:00:30] Yeah. It’s definitely a very huge change
[00:00:34] Kristof: [00:00:34] You must be happy with it if you went ahead with it. Was it eWay? Very cool. And certainly interesting times ahead for you guys.
[00:00:45] Brent: [00:00:45] I did I did see that you had a blog post on mergers and acquisitions. So maybe we can talk about that a little bit today.
[00:00:53] Kristof: [00:00:53] You have to admit you guys being bought was the trigger for me to set up. It seems to be happening every, other month. So yeah, just trying to keep track, tracking, it’s been a few years and obviously our initial stab at it missed quite a few, but some people have letting us know what we missed.
[00:01:17] And so we’re trying to add a few more people in companies and LinkedIn, but I’m pretty sure there’s still lots and lots that are not on, on people’s radar. But yeah, I thought it was an interesting summary or a snapshot of how far Magento has come as a community and how the changes. Seem to be lately, but then again, looking back it has been there forever.
[00:01:43]Brent: [00:01:43] And the big news today with Ben marks
[00:01:48] Kristof: [00:01:48] not, surprising I’d say as in the the surprising thing for me out of it as har how quickly it happened, my thought would have been. Ben gives himself a little bit more of a holiday and sort of year just let it sit and see, what his options are before embarking on a new journey.
[00:02:10] But he was never going to go away fromthis space as it needs to, he’s definitely an asset to, any community that has them.
[00:02:19] Brent: [00:02:19] Yeah, and I, talked to Ben right after our sale, so what, tell me what, like what’s new for you. What’s going to happen this year? I just put my notice in and I’m like, what?
[00:02:35] Yeah I knew it was happening. I knew it was coming up and I suspect that Ben had a, some Shopware already in his like they’d been talking and I, joined the masters called this morning and I asked what I asked Sherry, like what, is it that who’s going to be able to, or who is going to replace Ben or what is the plans?
[00:02:57] And she said, who could replace Ben? So I I tend to agree with that. It’s a different environment now. And I don’t remember if you rememberMatt Ms. Matt Asay? He was the Adobe spokesperson when Adobe bought Magento. I don’t know if you were at Imagine when he was there and then he quickly not quickly, but he then soon left for AWS.
[00:03:23] So it’s a, corporate environment now, right?
[00:03:27] Kristof: [00:03:27] Yes. And I think you said, I want us to bring up community and I think that’s probably the main thing which Adobe hasn’t done really well at all is it’s always inevitable that existing people, once you get bought up from a bigger company, that people don’t see the right fit or don’t have the creative, power, the opportunities that they’ve previously had, that they will leave.
[00:03:53] I think Adobe as a whole, hasn’t done well to establish new figures and new leadership, which comes off of Adobe looking after. So the Magento space, I’m sure Jason Woosley is still around, but I think that’s probably one of the few people from the previous leadership team. That’s still normally on board with commerce slash Magento.
[00:04:20] And yeah, obviously we’ve had Ben, but in this really had a chance to introduce who his successor would be. I think COVID did the rest of them. If there was a bit of longer term succession planning it would have been a great opportunity to take that success around the world and introduce that person.
[00:04:43] But obviously. There wasn’t really many events to pull it off. Nor is there a dedicated person currently to fill those shoes. We’ll see what Adobe has a plan for the whole evangelism side of things?
[00:05:02] Brent: [00:05:02] You know what I mean? I think it’s interesting. And it’s interesting that like eBay.
[00:05:11] Adobe how those acquisitions were made. And then everybody was so down on the community and they’re going to ruin the community and then somehow the community rallies.
[00:05:20] Kristof: [00:05:20] It’s an interesting one for me because I always feel like I have an interesting vantage point from New Zealand as if I’m so, far away.
[00:05:30] So for me, it’s usually trying to read the tea leaves and. If it’s often when I make the trip to the Imagines, I feel like I dip my toe into it. And I feel a bit off the current in terms of what the Magento community is doing. And obviously I’m involved in the, local community.
[00:05:52] And, but that’s fair to say that that has definitely changed quite a bit in recent times as an there’s still a nucleus of People that are very involved with Magento, but it’s definitely getting smaller. Which was, I think a fair summary of where Magento’s at in terms of the type of merchants and the type of people using Magento.
[00:06:21] Brent: [00:06:21] Yeah. No, I completely agree with that. And we are hopefully planning on spending some winters here in Hawaii, and it’s interesting that we’re one hour apart. 23 hours apart, but it’s only one hour in effective, but it as we spend more time here, it’ll be interesting to see how if, Hawaii being a US state, but next week, we’re going to be five hours difference from central time.
[00:06:51] Is that going to make us even more disconnected from the world or does the internet and Twitter and everything else help us all be part of it. I think for me, the hardest part is communicating with my friends in Europe when I’m here, just the time zone really clashes. So I don’t know about how, like, How do you, work out some of those time differences when you want to talk to somebody in England or Germany?
[00:07:18] Kristof: [00:07:18] So I guess the summary is we have always been fairly synchronous as in like, email is the best way to communicate with us. And I am a little bit of a night owl, so that obviously helps if people get in touch while I’m still up. That sort of allows a little bit of quicker turnaround on, a few things.
[00:07:43] But yea the time difference to Europe from us is pretty much exactly 12 hours. So that’s one of the, I think for US, it’s just their case. So that’s one of the reasons we picked ’em. 8:00 PM European time for our ExtDN open chat, which is happening tomorrow as that will allow me to tune in early morning, just just after the first coffee really
[00:08:11] Brent: [00:08:11] Let’s talk about ExtDN for a little bit then I remember, and I can’t believe it’s been like since 2016, right? That, launched. Is that correct?
[00:08:20] Kristof: [00:08:20] Yes, so the, first idea, really the first people getting together really was 2016. That was like the early stages of Magento 2 really, and that I think was the main driver for me is to get people on the same boat together to get an idea of, Hey, here’s this completely new platform.
[00:08:45] All of the sudden, all these people want all these things from extension developers. But wait a second. We, are supposed to make this huge, a huge step forward without really any, idea of where it will end up and if it’s even useful or if it’s a good investment for us to, be on board.
[00:09:10] So yeah, trying to get an idea of what other extension developers at the time were doing. And so the other thing happening at the, same time, which was a bit of a change was obviously Magento marketplace is in their commercials, changed slightly is that they obviously wanted to take a cut from everything that’s being sold on marketplace and selling directly through marketplace rather than what happened previously, which was just a referral to. Essentially everyone owns av website.
[00:09:49] Brent: [00:09:49] Yeah. I sort of remember the old marketplace. It was, just a, was it a link through? I can’t, a hundred percent. Remember how it worked. It was all Magento 1
[00:10:01] Kristof: [00:10:01] It was Magento connect.
[00:10:03] Brent: [00:10:03] Yes. Magento connect. And could we theoretically install extensions through the admin using Magento connect?
[00:10:13] Kristof: [00:10:13] Yes. there was a way for custom packages to install via the admin. But I don’t think it ever took off. No. Was it straightforward
[00:10:29] Brent: [00:10:29] Yeah. And I think there, the rule of thumb was don’t give the client, the merchant any, way of actually doing that because it probably will kill their site.
[00:10:41] Kristof: [00:10:41] Yes. Yes. It was in with with access comes responsibility.
[00:10:46] Brent: [00:10:46] Exactly. So just an interesting backstory. We got involved with Magento in late 2015. And, we were looped in with some people to start building the Magento marketplace with them. And there was another company involved out of Canada that did a front end in Drupal.
[00:11:11] And it was meant to be just like an app store. They were going to come up with an app store and the goal was to have this. They, had some pre-baked app style. It wasn’t an app. It was a Drupal application that connected to a backend. So our job and our job at Wagento and I, that was, it was Vijay leading it with a number of other developers.
[00:11:39] Our job was to connect this Drupal front end with Magento in the back end and maybe leaving. The ability to just log into the admin, but it turned into this huge, project of, just completely making everything available via API. As in Magento 1, this is on Magento 1.14 and then connecting this app to the backend.
[00:12:10] And I think we worked on that for two or three, no more than that. Three or four months with this company, it was *[Feburary] of 2016 that we got, we we got this call that said we’re going to redo the whole store in Magento 2. Can you guys do it in eight weeks? If they bring a team from the Ukraine and we had Vijay come over from India and a couple other people could go.
[00:12:36] We had some, yeah, we had a bunch of people come in. We all went to Austin and they, kicked, they built it kicked out this store and it was launched right before Imagine. So it was a really cool story. And it worked I think that was like the amazing part that on Magento 2, we built this store and that’s where all the payouts and everything happened through Magento 2.
[00:13:04] That’s the, that’s our, I don’t know, call it claim to fame, but it was, a fun, it was a very fun project. Everybody got along. Like we had a dedicated scrum master from Magento. We had these two Cuban guys that worked for us at the time. And I just remember walking by walking by their, room and the hotel and they their normal voices are like this they’re just yelling, but of course, in Spanish.
[00:13:34] And then at the end we had a, big party in Austin where the Cuban guys had some cigars and a Magento had a bunch of bourbon and. We just had this huge party out on the, out in the river. It was really fun. So yeah. So 2016 seems like forever ago.
[00:13:52] Kristof: [00:13:52] It is, but also it isn’t like it’s time, goes faster than e-commerce.
[00:13:58] Other than the one thing that’s always true. The only constant is change. That still applies. Obviously the marketplace has come quite some ways since then as well, but in, in other aspects that you had seemed to say that you can come far enough. I think to me it’s still a lost opportunity.
[00:14:28] Strategically as in, if you look at a platform. And community and what is still the focal point of everyone involved in the community that does go via themes and extension and extensibility. And where do all these different parties come together? That is the marketplace. Oh it should be.
[00:14:57] Whereas currently. It’s not there. And I currently don’t see the let’s call it the appetite to make it that
[00:15:07] Brent: [00:15:07] Tell me how tell me how Fooman interacts with the marketplace. Do you get a lot of your business out of the marketplace or is it a mixture of two, or do you tell me how that how, from a business standpoint, I’m interested in hearing how that, how it works for you and It sounds like you have a few mixed messages or feelings about it.
[00:15:32] Kristof: [00:15:32] Yeah. So I still think as a long-term opportunity channel for us, I think there’s still opportunity there, but as it stands today most of our business is not going through marketplace as in Mordor . We do have people that would prefer going then, but for us. Having lots of things built, what marketplaces also build we able to cater to our and support our customers a whole lot better by doing it in house.
[00:16:06] Brent: [00:16:06] Yeah. Okay. So I’m assuming your, extensions are available via composer through packages or something like that works the same as, okay. just going to getting back to the, extension developers network. Give me an idea of how that started and who started it and why it started?
[00:16:28] Kristof: [00:16:28] I had started, so I think so the origin story, I think we tried to tell it to a while ago at Meet Magento New York I think,. It was so the, moment really weird clicked in my head was we got like a lot, quite a review, but the feedback from a customer who said. Fooman this was awesome worked first time.
[00:16:56] Thank you so much. Unfortunately nine times out of ten I have a pretty bad experience. And so at first I was like, yeah, yay. We’re doing everything, right, customer happy surely we’re doing better than our competitors. This is great. But then I had this this moment where I was like, Hey, the industry as a whole nine times out of ten people have a bad experience, what does it mean for the industry?
[00:17:29] So yeah, ExtDN was born out of that idea that, Hey, there are more people that have a similar approach to making sure the customer has a good experience. It’s trying to highlight those type of extension developers that provide the good experience and lifting the overall game of the extension developer industry.
[00:17:55] Really? So yeah, we got together a group of people and trying to grow it organically since then. And trying to get involved with the right people at Magento, obviously, because. It’s a set marketplace while a good idea still has some way to go. So we always have feedback and trying to highlight the developers that we think in that one out of ten experience, rather than the nine out of ten experience.
[00:18:30] Brent: [00:18:30] Tell us how it’s funded. I’m, interested in how the good developers are bubbled up to the top. And then I’m also interested in the blacklisted ones, or is there a way that you hear about black, listed developers or, agencies at least.
[00:18:51] Kristof: [00:18:51] So in terms of how we are organized, it’s essentially.
[00:18:55] It’s called an association as an members apply to become part of ExtDN. And then they go through an application process where we asked quite a few questions and we have a yeah, quorum on the outline where we got over an application and assess if that shook off, further or not.
[00:19:15] And then it’s presented to the current members and then each member can essentially. Say if they’re okay with a new member joining or not. And so the wider you’ve gotten over time a lot is based on reputation and sort of what we can glean out of public records. As it’s, easy for someone to say we are the best.
[00:19:41] But obviously we try to put our feelers out and get an understanding of if we accept a new member is that going to be detrimental to the views of what people think of ExtDN? Or is it actually going to be beneficial?
[00:19:59]Brent: [00:19:59] There is an actual website people can go to, right?
[00:20:02] Kristof: [00:20:02] Yes. So it’s ExtDN.org. As when we went for the org domain is, as I said, it’s a, that’s an association, but it’s, non-profit it doesn’t it’s because it’s through the, goal of making sure that people have a great experience with extensions in the Magento suite.
[00:20:22] Brent: [00:20:22] And how do you how do you interact with Magento proper on ExtDN?
[00:20:28] Kristof: [00:20:28] We have a few existing contexts where we have a semi-regular meeting with the market place, people. So we’ve. That has changed over the years, quite a bit. So we’ve tried to connect with the different people over the years that we’re responsible or are responsible on the marketplace side.
[00:20:48] So we try to give feedback where, we can and yeah. Then through channels like these and through our members, trying to spread the word of what ExtDN is and hopefully raise the awareness a little bit that. What we stand for and hopefully what our members can deliver.
[00:21:07] I remember one of the big complaints about the old marketplace or the new old marketplace was the fact that you could game the reviews.
[00:21:18] I think Karen Baker was a a big advocate of saying that the reviews are broken on there. Have you thought about a making an ExtDN or your own sort of marketplace that these. All these extensions. Wouldn’t almost, I guess I don’t want to use the word compete against Magento, but I suppose you would compete against the Magento marketplace and then B would there, is there a place already that you can see customer reviews on actual extensions that people have installed?
[00:21:51] I think the thought is always there to have a combined store, but equally we also know it’s not going to be an easy one as in Currently it’s it’s not an official association like the Magento association. So it’s not like an official legal body that ExtDN is. So to be able to take payments in any country and distribute them across the world without flagging any dodgy tax business, we would have to take that step.
[00:22:23] So I think we’re not quite at that stage yet where we would entertain most those next steps to do that in terms of reviews that is something we’ve contemplated. But again, it’s I think I’d rather use this interview to ask people really, to leave reviews, especially good reviews.
[00:22:48] As in it’s it’s good. For the remaining people in the community, as in if you have an actual experience, share that experience because other people can benefit from it. And on marketplace, the number of actual reviews is a lot, less than it should be. So in the old days, we might’ve had the problem of too many reviews where most of them were fake, but these days there’s hardly any reviews.
[00:23:18] Like on some of my free extensions. I have thousands of downloads. Thousands of people put it in their cart, presumably installed it. I don’t have any visibility of that like the reviews that you get doesn’t work and I can’t sort of gleaned from the message that they’re saying that possibly they didn’t install it.
[00:23:41] Quite possibly. They didn’t they have something else quite possibly the error message. References code. That’s not an our extension. So that’s the type of reviews you may get if you’re lucky. But overall it needs more people communicating back that it worked, which is what I assume will happen.
[00:24:05] And most of the time as an, as I said, there’s thousands of people installed and the extensions. And if you don’t hear anything the assumption would be that it messed up the job..
[00:24:16] Brent: [00:24:16] I do feel like the marketplace could do a much better job and we have, one extension that was free for a long time the Zendesk extension.
[00:24:27] I checked at some point we had, 10,000 downloads on this extension. And I think we have one review. I think Magento should be thinking about how do they get reviews on there, on the extensions that come out of it. Because I don’t think. And, like the other thing is like having more visibility on who downloads it and had the opportunity to even prompt them to get the review.
[00:24:53] There’s just so many firewalls. I feel like that are in-between the extension provider and the person purchasing it or getting it for free. Yes, they can. They can ask for support, they can contact you directly. But if they don’t and I go go back to the Zendesk extension as a good example, if they just download it and then they install it and it’s free, we don’t necessarily know who it is, what they’ve used it for how many times they’ve used it.
[00:25:27] Kristof: [00:25:27] Yeah, pretty much.
[00:25:30] Brent: [00:25:30] That’s not me being crazy.
[00:25:32] Kristof: [00:25:32] No, but it’s, also not a hard problem. It’s just a problem of focused and actually someone wanting to do it. And that’s that, again goes back to what I was saying initially is like seeing micro players is a strategic importance to focus the community and things like, you could easily, expand the existing module of marketplaces, which are included in Magento, which just has a the way to existing install extensions through the backend, hey recently installed extension. How do it?
[00:26:19] Brent: [00:26:19] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:23] Kristof: [00:26:23] But again, someone needs to do it.
[00:26:25] Someone needs to have the appetite for building it which is currently even albeit.
[00:26:32] Brent: [00:26:32] Yeah, I would agree with that too. I think that there could be a lot of things to make that part of it better. And I guess I’m not sure. If it’s, Adobe and a lack of resources or Adobe or, and a lack of direction, I would imagine it’s a little bit of both.
[00:26:53] From the resource standpoint, I find it a little bit not troubling they have, they do have so many resources and just seeing what they’ve done, like with MagentoU, and how that folded into Adobe digital learning services. It seems like the marketplace has a lot of, let’s just say it has a lot of opportunity that, they could grow on.
[00:27:20] Kristof: [00:27:20] Yeah. That’s probably a fair assessment of where things are today
[00:27:25] Brent: [00:27:25] From the marketplace to your extensions. Are you looking at some SaaS based extensions and maybe even going off into other platforms other than Magento, or have you already done it? Have people asked you for extensions for other. Other commerce platforms and SaaS platforms.
[00:27:44] Kristof: [00:27:44] So we’ve had a couple of inquiries where people moved to different platforms. But at the moment, Fooman fairly focused on one platform as an it’s as a we’re a small player. And I think with focus comes a lot of benefits as in like we know Magento inside and out. So we can provide a really good service and we understand the problems.
[00:28:14] Whereas I’m duplicating that across different platforms would require a substantial investment into ourselves to be able to deliver on the same level as an. It takes a while to understand the intricacies of each and do every platform SaaS in a way makes some things a lot easier because you essentially take away lots of options, which, you know, if you have less options and all of a sudden things are easy.
[00:28:49] So yeah what’s the at the moment Magento is our, main focus. And currently doesn’t have plans for 2021 to, to change that.
[00:28:59] Interesting. So maybe Shopware is in your future.
[00:29:03] We say if a, if Ben marks finally makes it out to New Zealand and convinces me that we need to jump into that space
[00:29:12] Brent: [00:29:12] Going back to your blog, how to find trustworthy information about your Magento extension, what did you, what was your conclusion on that?
[00:29:20] And, Do you see, do you think you can still do that? It’s been four years since I think you wrote that post, I think that’s something that’s really important and we’ve already determined that maybe marketplace isn’t meeting that expectation because we don’t really know what’s happening after it’s been sold.
[00:29:40] Kristof: [00:29:40] Yeah. So I think where they are reviews on marketplace, they still have a valid point in terms of that. I think that they now have two different categories, which is a verified purchase and an unverified purchase. And I still think some people are still gaming the system in terms of buying their own extinction and then creating their own review on it.
[00:30:04] I think that could still be very much a way to get them very first review to you’re like, if you have no stars, it was, it’s a five star that’s immediately it does look so much better. So I think some people may be tempted to actually do that because it’s easy enough, all you have to give up is essentially 30% of your purchase price because you get it back.
[00:30:29] So you know, what you get out of it, I think is quite possibly too much of an incentive to not do that. But the other things I still. I feel still apply. I’d probably would extend my list slightly, which is if you find an extension, I think these days it’s a lot easier. Be prepared to cycle through a few different extension.
[00:30:57] Just trial them out quickly as the most actually. Yeah. The money back guarantee. So if it doesn’t have a money back guarantee, okay. Then don’t do it. But for example, Marketplace would have it. So by the time you cycle through three different extensions do a quick install to see how they go.
[00:31:15] And then you have a good idea of which four get you closer to your goal. I think a lot of people think that an extension is going to solve all their problems, but maybe approaching it from standpoint of view is, Hey this sort of saves me 60 75, 80 percent of development time. As long as the extension is a good base to work off and a sort of built with extensibility in mind, then you work off a really solid base, which might have already covered a lot of the edge cases, which your project management discovery process has an uncovered yet.
[00:31:59] By building on a base, which gets you 80% in there Sure. Maybe you need to trial two different extensions because one is coded better than the other, but that’s why you engage agencies because they quite possibly have that experience across the across a few different existing extensions that they can fall back on.
[00:32:23] Brent: [00:32:23] Okay. That brings up a couple of interesting questions. The first one is How do you help agencies or client or the end user deal with like performance issues? So as an agency, we come across customers who may have 70 extensions because they feel like every extension is going to solve every single problem.
[00:32:44] And the more extensions they have, the more problems they’ll get rid of. And they don’t realize that when you’re going to say Magento 2.4. Every single one of those extensions,Also has to come along for the ride.
[00:32:57] Kristof: [00:32:57] I think then a few things to unpack in there as well. But so one of the things we try to communicate a lot more these days is.
[00:33:08] What do you get from us in terms of we keeping on top of every single extension and every single release. So every three months a new Magento release comes out and depending on how many active release lines out that means we jump into action and we actually individual tests those extensions on all the new releases.
[00:33:32] So we do this for every extension, four times a year. So this is work that we tag on. And if you’re able to install the extension on the new version, that means we have gone through our processes to say, this is good. So that’s where I think some of the benefits of using external extensions is you pay a small amount for that to be kept up to date.
[00:34:00] I keep kept working. If we did our job well, for example, on our email on attachments extension over the last. Year and a half, there were about three to four different can changes inside our extension. Just the way templating, emailing, et cetera works. But if we’ve done our job you wouldn’t have even noticed you you run your composer update and I essentially just pulls it in the right version for the magenta version you’re on.
[00:34:31] And you’re none the wiser, it just works
[00:34:33] Brent: [00:34:33] Yea, and I think
[00:34:34] that’s theoretically I saw a new version of big surge just came out and not big Sur. Is it big Sur the new version? There’s a new version of of the, I have a Mac OS it just came out. So theoretically you want that to upgrade and not to be any problems.
[00:34:51] So I, a hundred percent agree with you. So then how do you get the myriad of other developers out there doing the exact same thing? And that’s, I think that’s the question. And, I think one of the things. That the marketplace could improve on would be to guess they do already give the version.
[00:35:10] So I on that process that you’ve just gone over ensuring that all those are upgraded and that version is correct.
[00:35:20] Kristof: [00:35:20] So that, sort of depends a little bit on how you approach versioning of your extinction and how conservative slash open you are with defining your dependencies. As if I provide an extension, which says I’m compatible with Magento, then you know, no matter which version of Magento you are now and way into the future, this will install.
[00:35:46] So that is the easy route. And the easy route has been taken by many. So then therefore you have no, no safeguards. It will install, nothing will tell you that if it has been verified on the latest version or not it’s up to. The agencies slash merchant slash and customer to find out if that works on all.
[00:36:12] Brent: [00:36:12] Yeah. And just to give the alternative to that is making sure that your module doesn’t upgrade with the latest version until you’ve tested it, and then you change the version. So essentially Your module that is only compatible with up to some version is a roadblock for the next person.
[00:36:34] Kristof: [00:36:34] Or they have to manually force the upgrade with, that extension.
[00:36:40] We’ve gotten a whole lot more explicit over the last few years as an I’m now the view is in, if we’ve tasted it explicitly, it works. But if we haven’t done our job yet, then something we’ll be holding back until you can take that step.
[00:36:59] Brent: [00:36:59] Yeah. And I think that you would agree that the latter, the one where you’re explicitly saying this is not going to go to the next version until we’ve tested it. Is the better.
[00:37:10] Kristof: [00:37:10] It depends because it comes with an implicit promise that we are on top of our game to actually be very, close to GA release.
[00:37:21] And we’ve gotten a whole lot better with that with that’s actually a good change that has come out of Adobe. They provide a bit of a pre-release timeframe. So during that timeframe, that’s when we either have better access or the pre-released timeframe. So during that time, we were incredibly busy to make sure that we hit that prior to GA.
[00:37:44] So once GA general availability hits that our extensions are available across all channels. So people can just update. But obviously, if you’re not there quick, if your maintenance window is, Hey, we’re still not competitive with the magenta 2.4, then obviously holding back all stores to actually try that themselves, to see if, but to go through their own testing process.
[00:38:14] In that case, it might be preferable to essentially. Let it go and let the other people will do the job.
[00:38:23] Brent: [00:38:23] Tell me a little bit about PWA and how are you dealing with that in terms of
[00:38:30] Kristof: [00:38:30] I think it’s fair to say, PWA and Magento that’s PWA studio has seen quite a bit of hype and I think it came out of the pain points of the existing front end.
[00:38:44] And we’re going to be talking quite a bit. About that in the ExtDN open chat tomorrow. So hopefully everyone was able to join that. I’m not sure when we’re going to air this interview. So with that, I think it’s been long time in the making and they have quite a few good ideas around extensibility. And we’ve tried to as ExtDN members trying to engage at various stages.
[00:39:13] But I think. Time moves slowly on that front as, and I’ve actually just gone back on on some of the emails to see when was the first time we try to get involved with that. And that’s pretty much from the initial stages of when PWA studio started, where nothing was extensible. There wasn’t a code nor nothing, but that was obviously way too early, but we’re still not at a point yet where it’s extensible.
[00:39:44] Yeah. There’s still work to be done and similar for other front end solutions. So yeah, I’m really hoping that some of that extensibility the ideas are there, it’s just a matter of making sure that all the right places are Getting opened up and actually useful.
[00:40:10] Brent: [00:40:10] And then the $10,000 question, the hoofa, the new Hyva theme versus Luma versus PWA, where do you, or versus all the other Java script front ends like a VueStorefront and a ScaniWeb there’s a bunch of them out there.
[00:40:30] Now. The PWA versus the built-in theme. Where were you sitting on those?
[00:40:37] Kristof: [00:40:37] So my hope is that PW studio slash Vinia slash maybe something else becomes again, a new Luma theme as in a quick start where existing extension points are. Well-defined where everyone knows. Hey, if you run when I run in installation for an extension, and if I wanted something to show up in the front end, I can make estimated guesses in which area I can add something that will just show up.
[00:41:12] And once those are defined for any front end then it becomes a matter of how can get into that process for an extension. And with the various front ends, that is, and that’s something we raised again, three years ago, back then it was Deity and one other one anyway commerce tools, I think so.
[00:42:11] Brent: [00:42:11] My big beef so far on Luma has been well, just the speed in which the out of the box loads. I’m excited about PWA studio. Cause I think out of the box, even on a small Amazon server at loads and under two seconds, but I think Luma just default loads in four seconds or something like that.
[00:42:33] And I think the goal now is everybody wants less than one second load times. And I don’t see Magento working very hard on their either Luma theme. And I think that PWA studio isn’t quite there yet for people to use so that I think the big thing that has to be tackled now is the speed. And I’m hoping we were, we’re doing our first live store or a customer store on the.
[00:43:04] Hyva I’m doing the Finnish way, the hoofa theme. So I’m I’m excited to see how it works and how it turns out.
[00:43:11] Kristof: [00:43:11] I think that the summary of the Hyva theme is really that the front end Magento2 through deserved. So yeah, hopefully that pans out and I think it’s a really good current site off having a different option and that really shows The possibilities with an engaged community is in Magento is so flexible.
[00:43:36] You can just rip out the things that you don’t like. If you put in the effort, you can just come up with a completely new front end where everyone goes, this is amazing. And that’s something you can do with Magento. So again, that’s, I guess why we’re all still in it,
[00:43:54] because it offers. That flexibility.
[00:43:57] Yeah. And you really can’t do that with Shopify.
[00:44:01] I haven’t tried them, so I can’t.
[00:44:04] Brent: [00:44:04] All so tell us how has life in New Zealand right now? Good.
[00:44:09] Kristof: [00:44:09] I went for my my big coastal challenge run a couple of weeks ago. Paid for it the next day, but actually the next two nights was it was a pretty good experience.
[00:44:21] It’s a lot more in the water than I thought.
[00:44:24] Brent: [00:44:24] Was that a formal rate or is it just I saw, a video. There’s a lot of people there. Was it an actual race or is just a lot of people getting together for run?
[00:44:35] Kristof: [00:44:35] No, it wasn’t actual race like with with transponder and everything.
[00:44:40] Some people work pretty fast not me. But I made it to the finish line, which is what what was the main thing for me?
[00:44:52] Brent: [00:44:52] So I, do have another friend in New Zealand and she said that you’re not wearing masks in general now, is that it? Or do people, are people wearing masks when, you’re out and about in general?
[00:45:05] Kristof: [00:45:05] So it depends a little bit. Currently Auckland is, so we have four levels of restrictions. Last week we actually were back at level three, which is Somewhat strict with the schools closed with level two and level one, there’s a mandate to use mass on public transport.
[00:45:28] But otherwise it’s fairly limited use.
[00:45:30] Brent: [00:45:30] Yeah. In, on this, on the big Island here. I think I heard that there was two cases or something and we had to get tested before we left and we get, tested when we land. So there’s. There, there’s a lot of restrictions on in, in Hawaii, at least on the big Island and masks are very common.
[00:45:51] Like you, you are meant to always have your mask on. So I think that’s a good thing. And where my home state is Minnesota, which is in the middle of the Tundra. Same thing it’s everybody’s wearing a mask and it’s, this thing to do.
[00:46:10] Kristof: [00:46:10] Which is great because most help and if everyone does their bit, then hopefully we all get out of it quicker.
[00:46:18] Brent: [00:46:18] I am signed up for a race in June. It’s called Grandma’s marathon and I’ve done. This will be my fourth time. I’ve done that race and they have a new algorithm that they’re going to employ. For this race to strategically place runners. So they’re never more than six feet away from each other. And they’ve kept the race at 4,000 people.
[00:46:40] So that’ll be it’s right now. It’s built as the first big race. That’s going to go in the U S that’s going to be COVID freindly that they’re going to think about COVID. And how that works on a bigger scale. So would number one, I’m hoping it happens, because I think we’re all having race fatigue, but number two, it’ll be interesting to see if they can execute this plan.
[00:47:06] Kristof: [00:47:06] So during the race, you shouldn’t ever, be closer than six feet to anyone else.
[00:47:11] Brent: [00:47:11] You can, but they’ve employed some algorithm that will space people out as they start. So they took the results from 2019 and they’re going to they’re gonna, they’re gonna put those results into play for this one.
[00:47:24] So you have to say your, proposed finished time, your average pace and all these other things. And they’re going to take those and then work it out over 42 K. Yeah.
[00:47:35] Kristof: [00:47:35] Very Interesting.
[00:47:38]Good, luck with that. And yeah, we’ll see how we got it. If you need a little six feet umbrella with you to run.
[00:47:50] Brent: [00:47:50] Yeah. I won’t be that strict, the goal is just to make it safe.
[00:47:57] Kristof: [00:47:57] Hopefully by June things are already I’m looking in the right direction this time.
[00:48:02] Brent: [00:48:02] Our state just now. They just announced that if they’re going down to 45 and older, it will, if you have a health condition, 45 and older, you’ll get your vaccine.
[00:48:13] So I think we’re at 30% already in our state, which is, which I think is pretty good. I think the goal is 80% or something like that, which they say we’re going to be all done by May
[00:48:24] Kristof: [00:48:24] that’d be pretty amazing. So yeah, we’ll see how it goes.
[00:48:30] Brent: [00:48:30] The best part of this is that we’re going to look back at this interview in three years and go, what are they doing?
[00:48:36] Talking about?
[00:48:39] Kristof: [00:48:39] It will be in the history books,
[00:48:41] Brent: [00:48:41] right? Exactly.
[00:48:42] Kristof: [00:48:42] With us for a long time, so that the memories of it and the changes that have come out of it.
[00:48:48] Brent: [00:48:48] Why don’t you
[00:48:48] tell us, give us, give Fooman a plug Fooman.com and tell us how we can contact you. And and, we’ll put up. We’ll put the website on and the notes and the interview and give you a nice shameless plug.
[00:49:06] Kristof: [00:49:06] I’m not really good at these things. Just check us out for any extension needs, especially around making your life as an admin easier. If you want to customize PDFs, we’ve done that for quite some time. And if you use Xero as your accounting platform we’re also
[00:49:23] specialists in that.
[00:49:24] Brent: [00:49:24] All right. I’ll help you there too, because I’ve been using Foomans extension since 2010. I’m guessing know bit by bit as 2009 that we first started using your PDF customizer. And I’ll say that then it was awesome. And it’s even awesome-ER. Or more awesome. I don’t know which is the correct form, but I think awesome-ER is a good one.
[00:49:49] So I would, and it’s Fooman.com. So I will give you a, more than 10 years plug that that the, and I know that you’re like, 22 and you started when you’re 10 or something. So it’s an amazing story and an amazing journey.
[00:50:08] Kristof: [00:50:08] Thank you so much where you’re testimonial. We actually have Have your photo on our website already as well as though.
[00:50:15] Brent: [00:50:15] Oh, geez. All right. Thanks again. Thanks for your time. And I will I will alert you when this interview goes.
[00:50:24] Awesome. Cool. All right. Looking forward to it and we’ll see what comes out of
[00:50:28] it. Yeah. Have a good afternoon. It’s 3:30 there tomorrow. Is that right? 1:30. It’s 1:30 and it’s Wednesday.
[00:50:37] Okay. It’s 2:30 on Tuesday here.
[00:50:40] Kristof: [00:50:40] We’re always a day
[00:50:40] Brent: [00:50:40] ahead. Had they had got it. Okay. That makes sense. All right. Have a good day. All right. Thanks for your time. Cheers. Bye. Thank you. Bye.
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